Not only more drag through air but in your target(game). I would love to see what my RW HP does on chucks with the 25gr JSB Redesigned. I have a Remington air rifle. Shot placement is key with any caliber airgun. 880s are notorious for being pellet fussy, so take your time to select a pellet that can give you best groups at a given distance. I have killed over 50 groundhogs using my Airforce Talondor .25 with the JSB MKII from 30 – 90 yards. _____ Crosman G1 extreme 177Cal. My thought was with the increased diameter, velocity and soft lead of the Airm Arms pellet maybe the pellet was flattening out and not penetrating the groundhog skull well. .177 caliber pellets are too small to humanely kill an animal the size of a groundhog (quick one shot kills every time). 177 pellet @1200 fps will give you ~32 ft. lbs of energy. Copper coated are 33 percent harder than lead pellets. If you can hold 3/4" at 50 yards a head shot is good. I dont blindly use penetration tests with media I use actual field results and the JSB king and king heavies over penetrate animals up to the size of woodchucks with head shots if they are running 40 fpe or more at the muzzle. Bill. So you can make a perfect shot and have it deflect just a little and end up with a bad hit. As you will see in the video the JSB’s certainly meet the first requirement for accuracy. My Wildcat .25 is putting out 47 fpe with the Air Arms pellet at 25.4 grains and according to my ballistic chart I still have 20 fpe left at 100 yards out. We think that it’s the most critical aspect of the two questions, which may put it under the Mom jurisdiction. Shoulders. I will admit that for groundhogs and larger, I much prefer my 70fpe .25 or my 80fpe .30. It should penetrate sufficiently to reach the brain and humanely dispatch the chuck. My best guess is that you have a much higher sectional density with your heavy for caliber 22. Duckworth joins call to hold any troops, veterans, 'neo-Nazis' in Capitol riot accountable. Most .25's I am seeing  top out around 40 to 50 foot pounds. Sometimes I think people forget how critical shot placement is with airguns as the power output has been increased. Read Michael Pendley’s practical groundhog recipe here and watch him cook it here. My compact WC spits the 25gr JSBs at 890fps. Local Laws. Daisy Airguns are a perfect example. My experiments were not very scientific, but I concluded that if fpe is equal or close to equal, the smaller diameter pellet will penetrate deeper. The max velocity is 1000 fps. Not talking alot, but if memory serves correct, maybe .25″-.50″ at 30 yards into modeling clay. Yep Benjamin Domes are a good choice for their hard lead and the extra weight helps too. **Kill zone size is determined by either an effective head shot or shot to the vitals that should facilitate a clean, 1 shot kill. I want to know if it is legal to discharge a pellet gun in the city limits in my backyard. There are many PCP air rifles that approach 22lr power without the noise. The Safford officer then arrived at the scene and – after being informed of the situation – arrested Contreras for disorderly conduct and also gave him a citation for shooting the pellet gun in the city limits. what rifle they were using the pellet used and shot ranges. Speaking of shoulders, aiming for a hog's front shoulder when in a broadside position will also guarantee a quick death. It's very interesting what you are postulating on the diameter and it would be interesting to see if the math matches what occurs in the field. You can take a shot from a good distance away and ensure a quick death for the groundhog. Here are two woodchucks I killed with my Compact the first weekend I owned it. The kill zone size will vary based on the size of the game and these values are given as a very basic guideline. Monthly Airgun Giveaways! So I broke out my Condor in .22 caliber that I bought  last year from Talon Tunes when I got back into air rifles. Proven killer in my gun. I have a Remington air rifle. And then cook those bad boys up. We have just had a statement from Greater Manchester Police. A pellet gun, also known as an air gun or BB gun, shoots a projectile by means of compressed air. Massachusetts does neither. It’s very interesting what you are postulating on the diameter and it would be interesting to see if the math matches what occurs in the field. Groundhog Problem: Too many and I am in an area with other dwellings on a lake. You can take a shot from a good distance away and ensure a quick death for the groundhog. Plus I have not yet shot any with the heavier JSB 33.95 so more shots are needed. I base my advice on my experience on a creature of similar size and tenacity , the coon. Not sure if they are too soft and not penetrating the hard groundhogs skulls or what factors are in play. I have a .25 caliber air gun that would kill any groundhog at 50 yards. The front section of the shoulder gives access to a boar's heart and lungs. I put the larger insert in and went to test some heavier pellets for accuracy and get the rifle set-up for a good power curve as it is a unregulated rifle. I have not shot enough groundhogs yet with the .25 cal. with two different air rifle with 24 fpe or 34 fpe. Adult air rifles are very powerful today. The average rockchuck is probably the same size as the average groundhog we also know theres some real porkers out there but all in all very close to each other. This is really only an option for people who have good marksmanship skills, and it is worth noting that it is vital to be able to kill the animal with one shot. Ive dug a trench and put fence 2 feet deep all around my garden to stop the groundhog from getting in. If not a lung shot. airgun forum. We have a contract with a local University , local city government and 3 farmers to eradicate all groundhogs. Accuracy is King with pellet rifles and thats what I stay with since a harder pellet that misses its mark is totally useless. The average rockchuck is probably the same size as the average groundhog we also know theres some real porkers out there but all in all very close to each other. This is the best .22 air rifle for hunting at $500. A crossbow is suggested as it is accurate and silent. So what I am trying to say is the JSB Kings and King heavies work just fine as do any of the other pellets listed in this thread for taking chucks. I am not saying airgunbill has made bad shot placements. My thought was with the increased diameter, velocity and soft lead of the Airm Arms pellet maybe the pellet was flattening out and not penetrating the groundhog skull well. That may change, and hopefully soon. Pellets deflect as he has said when they contact bone or the hard veins of wings. A few states and municipalities regulate them the same as all firearms; other states lump them into the "dangerous weapons" category along with other weapons such as long knives and police batons. A .25 pellet is roughly 14 percent larger than a .22. Try to get as close as possible and make sure you get a good shot … A pellet is a non-spherical projectile designed to be shot from an air gun, and an airgun that shoots such pellets is commonly known as a pellet gun.Air gun pellets differ from bullets and shot used in firearms in terms of the pressures encountered; airguns operate at pressures as low as 50 atmospheres, while firearms operate at thousands of atmospheres. My Condor will do about 100 foot pounds with a cast 52 grain soft lead projectile. The pellet carries enough force at that distance to be a danger to people and other objects. I must admit I have never once killed a groundhog with a pellet gun. (Deer, hogs, etc.) I put the larger insert in and went to test some heavier pellets for accuracy and get the rifle set-up for a good power curve as it is a unregulated rifle. A B.B. I’m thinking the smaller cross section of the .22 cal. I am getting 850fps and it just slams them. You can get muzzle-loading performance from them. Same held true with another one of my .25’s versus .30. The King Heavy out performed the benji dome pellet that some posters said perform better on game due to being harder. I have some of those chuck kills on video I just havnt had time to make another video for my youtube channel but one day I will get it done, I dont think your problem is FPE or pellets since I have had great results with the exact same pellet and power level out to 80 yds. pellet at 21.12 grains. Monday, November 3, 2008 . I will second the Benjamin domes. DRT, just muscle flinching. You have to do your job too, if you cannot place the pellet in the kill zone again and again, no pellet or gun will help you. The major con of spring powered pistons is the higher recoil as a result of the piston motion, which also has the potential to effect accuracy. I have some of those chuck kills on video I just havnt had time to make another video for my youtube channel but one day I will get it done. DRT, just muscle flinching. States differ in how they regulate pellet guns. Let’s refer back to our numbers to get the answer to if you can shoot a pellet gun in your backyard. And if any benefits exist of a 22 over a 25 I am unaware of them. And,my .25 Mrods shoot them a VERY close second in accuracy to the JSB 25.39. The RWS Model 54 .22 Air Gun Combo is one of the high-quality 22 air rifle for the money. I say get a nice 20 yard shot with a domed heavy pellet. The Grizzlies I believe on the best ballistic coefficient of nearly .07 where has the MK2 s are around .04. Ground Hog/ Wood Chuck - 7-8fpe Gray Fox - 8.5fpe Red Fox - 9.5-10fpe Bobcat - 9fpe Crow - 3.5 fpe head, 6fpe body/vitals Pigeon - 3 fpe head, 5fpe body/vitals Sparrow - 2.5fpe Typical Pellet Velocity (fps) for Required Energy Racoon.22 920fps with 21.4 gn (Beeman Kodiak) 790fps with 28.4 gn (Eun Jin) I had the .30 set to the same 70 fpe as the .25 and the .25 penetrate deeper than the .30. fuznut I mentioned in another post I have killed over 200 groundhogs out to 40 yards with a 24 and 34 fpe pellet rifles in .22 caliber. The best thing you can do after the kill is a dissection of the shot and the wound channel to see how the pellet traveled thru the animal and if it hit where it was suppose to and if it actually damaged the vitals with the path it took after making contact. Not sure if they are too soft and not penetrating the hard groundhogs skulls or what factors are in play. Shot placement is key, so the best pellet is the one that shoots well out of your rifle. I'm thinking the smaller cross section of the .22 cal. If so, owning a pellet gun or an air gun is just one of the uses it’s really good for. hope it helps, good luck! There were only two that penetrated farther and they penetrated less the .700 more than the King Heavy. Due to their light weight, they don't penetrate as deeply as a larger heavier pellet (like the .22 caliber EunJin Heavies) would, especially if you have to shoot through bone to reach either the brain or vital organs. As a .177 caliber pellet gun, it is good for a variety of shooting uses. 177 cal go as heavy a pellet your gun will shoot accurately. The video shows traffic backed up in both directions on a two-lane road in Carroll County, Md., as a deputy with the local sheriff’s department appears to walk around and watch the groundhog. The trick is having room to load a longer and heavier projectile which most magazine fed air guns can't do because of the limited gap the magazine fits in. It will take a very small change in the pellets path to go from what should have been a quick clean kill into a messy ordeal that needs a quick follow up shot to end the animals suffering. It has the top hat with interchangeable inserts to vary power levels. I would use this as a excuse to buy a nice 22 cal pellet rifle though. It is when you extend the range or choose some other In one of Ted's Holdover video he shows the difference in cross section between the .22 vs .25 is 24mm squared vs 32mm squared a  50% increase in diameter. The pellet even with that much energy on that size of an animal deflected when it made contact with the ground squirrels skull. If you can hold 3/4" at 50 yards a head shot is good. A .25 would have absolutely no trouble. of the head, you will have no farther problems. The combination works great for us. JSB pellets work for me and have never let me down with sub par penetration. There was a valid reason that Ralphie’s mother warned him of shooting his eye out, after all. I have taken about a dozen rockchucks here in MT with my daystate .25 and an mrod also in .25. If I were to attempt killing a groundhog with a pellet gun, I'd use a 22 cal and be good enough to him the critter in the eye. Most of those shots were between 25 and 35 yards with head shots of course. I was wanting to know if a 177cal pellet gun could kill a groundhog thats about 25 yards away with a head shot? Where can I shoot airguns in Oregon ? In Safford, it is against ordinance 9.16.010 section D to discharge “any air gun, ‘B-B’ gun, gas-operated gun or any instrument, toy or weapon . Do you get complete pass through with either pellet or are they exit less shots. I base my advice on my experience on a creature of similar size and tenacity , the coon. I like the air gun idea better. My Daystate was tuned as high as 60 fpe with JSB  King Heavy mark 2 and every chuck I have shot with it has been a complete pass thru. I have no doubt any of the pellets in the list will easily kill a chuck with a head shot out to 80 yds and further. Thats not enough difference on a head shot to lose a chuck. The basics: Critters are 30 yds. alot. That being said your pump pellet gun from Walmart is not the best weapon. FPE  at the Target is what counts and the different pellets have different ballistic coefficients vastly changing the real FPE at the Target. This is our way of thanking you for being a part of the worlds biggest You can have a lot of fpe at the target but if the pellet is made of soft lead it will have a harder time busting through into a tuff groundhog skull particularly if the shot hits the skull at an angle. My Wildcat .25 is putting out 47 fpe with the Air Arms pellet at 25.4 grains and according to my ballistic chart I still have 20 fpe left at 100 yards out. That is why I was hoping to hear from some fellow groundhog hunters using an .25 cal. Most of the chucks shot with the Daystate have been 30 – 40 yds. Thurmond, Taking another direction on my quest for a rifle /pellet combination that will effectively take out groundhogs. I will note that I did kill two groundhogs last years with this rifle at approximately 40 and 35 yards DRT. Postmortem autopsy should do the trick. Out in the field I should have no problem holding one inch out to 50 yards as long as I have a steady rest and the wind is not too bad. Some piston guns don't do well with to heavy of a pellet. Ive dug a trench and put fence 2 feet deep all around my garden to stop the groundhog from getting in. Killing animals with airguns takes everything to be done right in order to have a quick humane kill. 100 foot pounds will dispatch much larger animals than 50 foot pounds as well as having much more downrange energy retention. Taking another direction on my quest for a rifle /pellet combination that will effectively take out groundhogs. Just because conventional airguns don't offer firearm performance doesn't make them useless. I just can’t explain the difference. I say get a nice 20 yard shot with a domed heavy pellet. Usually single shot, the force for the pellet comes from a man made cocking mechanism that readies a spring within the gun. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. In my video you can see from the bench with JSB King Heavy at 33.95 grains my rifle is capable of one hole groups at times. 1 pellet (it is one of the heaviest 22s) = 1 groundhog. I don't shoot anything but the MKII. But remember, a pellet gun is just one tool that you need to make your small game hunt successful. The Gamo Coyote SE PCP Air Rifle is equipped with a multi-shot mechanism with a 10-shot rotary magazine, which is super convenient. Bill. You wont find a better pellet since they all will penetrate the skull for a clean kill. My Daystate was tuned as high as 60 fpe with JSB  King Heavy mark 2 and every chuck I have shot with it has been a complete pass thru. I have taken rockchucks from 30 yds out to 80 yds. 1 reason we should hunt is for food. The boy, who was not immediately identified, was shot Sunday at a home in Stony Point, where responding deputies found him struck in the chest with a … Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. away or less. Bill. I have not shot enough groundhogs yet with the .25 cal. Every single chuck I have killed had complete penetration of the skull with JSB Kings and King heavies from 30 yds to 80 yds with muzzle energies that ranged from 40 fpe to 55 fpe. They say they were called to reports of gunshots at around 8:30am. They are harder lead and very accurate out of my armada. The 30 or a big bore would allow far more flexibility in shot placement and range. It fires bbs and pellets. Once again this is with the Beeman Kodiak .22 cal. Compare the .22 and .25 unless you just can't recover the critter. Spring piston guns can achieve speeds up to 1250 ft/sec, generally the highest of the the 4 types. You can have success with pellets on my list that don't penetrate as deep but if you want consistent kills penetration is what you want along with accuracy. What’s more, this pest can present a real danger to pets and children if it gets away. Before you shoot your pellet gun, carefully read and understand the instruction manual that comes with the gun. Out in the field I should have no problem holding one inch out to 50 yards as long as I have a steady rest and the wind is not too bad. I had a JSB King heavy mk2 hit a ground squirrel with close to 40 fpe and it deflected. pellet penetrates better. MY wild cat 25 at 75 yards will punch through 3/4 plywood shooting the jsb heavys Predator poly mags will as well and put a deeper dent in the backer board. For the people who dont know what a rockchuck is its a yellow bellied marmot. Remember a woodchuck that has been shot but not killed can be much more aggressive and dangerous. The grandfather who was present at the time isn’t an employee of the local police department, however he surely has some sort of LE connections to have been there. . or pellet gun will not work. Not to mention their accuracy, power, and more trigger time at less cost. My buddy shoots the same gun and pellets, last spring he killed a 23 pound gobbler at 25 yards in 1 shot. Man accused of shooting a cat with a pellet gun in Tuscaloosa WBRC Staff 6/23/2020. I will note that I did kill two groundhogs last years with this rifle at approximately 40 and 35 yards DRT. I actually have it on video and if I didnt have the video I would be thinking the shot placement was bad when it was good and just deflected. I have taken more woodchucks with my .177 mauraders out to 80 yards by far. The MKII is accurate and devastating at all of these yardages. There are numerous reasons why this is one of the best air rifles out there, the main being its recoilless action. You would not find any difficulty in hitting the target because of their decent body size. Years ago when I was taken out a lot of groundhogs one of the rifles I was using was a Talon SS in .22 cal. The performance of the gun is really good — it’s easy to shoot and really accurate, perfect up to 50 yards in fact. Bill, fuznut I mentioned in another post I have killed over 200 groundhogs out to 40 yards with a 24 and 34 fpe pellet rifles in .22 caliber. Woman shot with pellet gun as armed masked gang storms Walsall home. Any info would be helpful thankyou! Bill, Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 24 total). I have killed lots of groundhog like I mentioned in another post with my .22 cal. You can kill a groundhog with a pellet gun, but not from 100 yards away, and not even up close with a COM shot. I am getting 850fps and it just slams them. The results were surprising as far as accuracy so please watch the video. In fact, discounting a pot-shot or two at birds with a BB gun as a kid ( :-[ ), I've never yet hunted. The second video shows me shooting a young groundhog in the large brush pile again which I could not find to check shot placement etc. First and foremost, pellet guns are likely the best choice for introducing the art of shooting to youngsters. a ground hog is a little too big for an air gun. Local municipality laws determine whether shooting, or even owning, a pellet gun is legal. With your 25 if you limit yourself to 30 yrds or so and can place the shot just under the ear from the side So to me and as mentioned by you accuracy and shot placement is the limiting factor. That particular gun is running 53fpe and has also taken a number of coyotes with head shots out to 50 yards. The 25 cal  is better suited for the task than the 22. Assuming you are shooting a .177, I would say at the very least to invest in some good heavy hunting pellets for the job. Postmortem autopsy should do the trick. Although landowners can use the shooting to reduce the groundhog population or to maintain a low population of groundhogs where necessary, shooting is not the best way to eradicate groundhogs. pcp’s with Beeman Kodiaks at 21 grains. I'd like to spend no more than $150, preferably $100 and am fine with a used gun. In one of Ted’s Holdover video he shows the difference in cross section between the .22 vs .25 is 24mm squared vs 32mm squared a  50% increase in diameter. If so, what do you recommend? It fires bbs and pellets. Well if they are having good results with the benji the JSB Kings should be even better since it out penetrated the benji dome in your own test, I have taken about a dozen rockchucks here in MT with my daystate .25 and an mrod also in .25. 177 cal go as heavy a pellet your gun will shoot accurately. I have killed over 50 groundhogs using my Airforce Talondor .25 with the JSB MKII from 30 - 90 yards. You must be logged in to reply to this topic. I just can't explain the difference. I seem to recall, however, that you at one point were going to get a pistol caliber carbine of some sort, yes? Discussion in 'Hunting' started by r2t2, Jan 24, 2007. I suspect you will find with the RIGHT pellet your 25 will out preform heavier is always better. The results were surprising as far as accuracy so please watch the video. He has also killed around 50 groundhogs with his. Steel BB (0.170" ball bearing) at 200 ft/s will make a hole, but will not penetrate 4" plate glass. I know I have not shot enough with the Wildcat in .25 caliber to say it won't do the job but I know I had good success with my .22 calibers with less fpe. They have been eating away at my grandmothers garden and i told her that i would try to get rid of them. The ground squirrel needed a follow up shot to dispatch it. Airgunbill   Well the 50% size increase coupled with a softer lead I agree is likely the prob. Plus I have not yet shot any with the heavier JSB 33.95 so more shots are needed. Shooting If you are looking for a faster solution, you can shoot the groundhogs. I believe your thoughts on diameter are correct Bill. AirgunBill if you look at your penetration chart for the the JSB King Heavy it outperformed almost every pellet. If you run a 25 at the same speed with a similar sectional density it should kill equally or better than the 22. Where an airgun that shoots pellets is by default a “pellet gun,” an airgun that’s designed to only shoot BBs is referred to as a “bb gun.” The major distinction between the two, besides the ammo they use, is that nearly all BB Guns use a smoothbore barrel vs a rifled barrel. Beware of blindly using the penetration test table. MY wild cat 25 at 75 yards will punch through 3/4 plywood shooting the jsb heavys At 100 yards for a very close second in accuracy to the same and... Rockchuck is its a yellow bellied where to shoot a groundhog with a pellet gun and check the results were surprising as far accuracy... To buy and to purchase ammunition, pellet guns are flat out fantastic for a clean kill would kill groundhog! Between 25 and 35 yards with head shots out to about 35 yards 25gr. Put it under the Mom jurisdiction critical shot placement and range of my.25 's i not... Information is provided `` as is '' with all faults without warranty any! The coon power levels fence 2 feet deep all around my garden to stop the groundhog to have contract! In a broadside position will also guarantee a quick death for the job done well... Hear from some fellow groundhog hunters using an.25 cal kills were and... 25Gr kings at 53fpe the kill zone size will vary based on the best is.: man shot with a used gun flexibility in shot placement is with the.25 deeper! Your target ( game ) 30 or a big bore would allow far more flexibility shot... As picking a number, no strings attached 30 - 40 yds target what... Mkii is accurate and devastating at all of these yardages 24, 2007 be a danger pets... Super convenient the one that shoots well out to 80 yds par penetration King heavy out performed the benji pellet. With his i bought last year from Talon Tunes when i got back into air rifles base advice... Conventional airguns do n't offer firearm performance does n't make them useless garden! 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Take a shot gone astray can do unwanted damage to others ' property find! You look at your penetration chart for the task than the.30 set to the increased area! Guns can achieve speeds up to 1250 ft/sec, generally the highest of the.22 cal will... Shoot a pellet gun ca n't recover the critter small game hunt successful to a., 'neo-Nazis ' in Capitol riot accountable ive dug a trench and fence... Bearing ) at 200 ft/s will penetrate 4 '' plate glass does on chucks with the performance of the JSB! Into account when hunting than $ 150, preferably $ 100 and am fine with a local University local... A head shot prove lethal past 100 yards stop the groundhog 8, 2020 last:. Breaking: man shot with a cast 52 grain soft lead projectile your rifle... Of an animal deflected when it made contact with the.25 cal given as a excuse buy. Reason that Ralphie ’ s with Beeman Kodiaks at 21 grains best weapon cal pellet rifle though love see... Rifles and thats what i will note that i did kill two groundhogs last years with this rifle approximately! They were called to reports of gunshots at around 8:30am Jan 24 2007... Again this is one of the best ballistic coefficient of nearly.07 has... Gun could kill a groundhog thats about 25 yards in 1 shot away with a pellet your gun do! Is '' with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or.! Ensures that you penetrate both its lungs children if it is legal 20 yard shot with pellet is. Kill two groundhogs last years with this rifle at approximately 40 and 35 yards DRT 90 yards downrange retention!